previously: overconcept, one and only again, tony oursler, hippies, video games as art, rhizome is a parasite., MN v RI, from back in the day, random bits of crits, hit me!,

A conversation with my Mom (a cognitive ethologist cum conflict analyst) regarding Morphogenetic Fields

A conversation with my mom regarding Morphogenic fields. 11/3/05 2:57 PM Christopher Robbins So, what do you think of Sheldrake's Morphogenetic Fields 11/3/05 2:58 PM C Ristau duhhhh??? 11/3/05 2:58 PM ... is that what your class was about??/ 11/3/05 2:58 PM Christopher Robbins No, but when I spoke about my Information Ecosystem, someone recommended I read a little on Morphogenic Fields 11/3/05 2:58 PM ... 'Experiment 1: In the 1920s Harvard University psychologist William McDougall did experiments for 15 years in which rats learned to escape from a tank. The first generation of rats averaged 200 mistakes before they learned the right way out; the last generation 20 mistakes. McDougall concluded that, contrary to accepted genetic science, such acquired knowledge could be inherited. ' 11/3/05 2:59 PM ... Sounds like the kind of thing you'd hate 11/3/05 2:59 PM C Ristau never heard of them...but one could probably google it 11/3/05 3:01 PM Christopher Robbins I have been. It sounds like something you had once mentioned as shoddy about evolution occuring in the generational realm 11/3/05 3:01 PM C Ristau acteually Mc Dougal is very famous min the history of apycholoyg. and ONCE, when at a conference in Psych in Hawaii., a number of us left and sat around in the ocean , drinking strong hawaian cocktailas and decided that learnign inherited over generations COULD occur...we were all impresswed...it has a nmae...IF i could only think of it...had some wine with dinner 11/3/05 3:01 PM ... yes, it is cons 11/3/05 3:01 PM ... idered veryshoddy 11/3/05 3:02 PM ... but ther are many possible factors involved...first of all the experimenter is probabaly improving in many sbtle ways 11/3/05 3:03 PM Christopher Robbins fortunately as 'artists' we can be as shoddy and vague and misconnected as we like! 11/3/05 3:03 PM ... ;) 11/3/05 3:03 PM C Ristau secondly, there COULD be some slection going on...ie... thosse who are at ease and succeed in these tasks reproduce more, have less stressduring pregnancy which has positive effects on teh foetus, etc etc 11/3/05 3:04 PM ... YAGGHH...you used an emoticon!!!!vomit, vomit 11/3/05 3:04 PM Christopher Robbins I hate them but theya re useful Christopher Robbins sent file jackowheaton.jpg to members of this chat 11/3/05 3:04 PM 11/3/05 3:04 PM Christopher Robbins And this one is cute: 11/3/05 3:05 PM C Ristau come now, you also have a significant scientific background!!! 11/3/05 3:06 PM Christopher Robbins I know, but I don't need to make sure the theories behind art projects are actually true 11/3/05 3:06 PM ... They can be fanciful 11/3/05 3:06 PM C Ristau hmmm... very elegant jack o lantern. But am I missing something in the name 11/3/05 3:07 PM Christopher Robbins Its just the name of the person who carved it 11/3/05 3:07 PM ... In writing we have to be academically rigorous 11/3/05 3:07 PM C Ristau then why bother calling the theoris...call them fancies or whimsical nonsenses 11/3/05 3:08 PM ... egad....I may have to disown you....if yo start...or rather continue such artsy sci babble 11/3/05 3:08 PM ... maybe artist sshouldnt be allowed to talk 11/3/05 3:09 PM ... is that stuff with McDOugals experiments supposed to be morphogenetic fields????? 11/3/05 3:10 PM Christopher Robbins thats what this web site says! 11/3/05 3:10 PM C Ristau ok, ok 11/3/05 3:11 PM ... wjat does that have to do with your plant breathing info construction????? 11/3/05 3:12 PM Christopher Robbins Visualizing the carbon dioxide we breath to plants as a transfer of information. As if the plant could process the information stored in the Co2 as well as the chemical structure. Pretending that we have hijacked this process as a natural internet. 11/3/05 3:13 PM ... So breathing on a plant trransfer info to the plant, who filters and then releases, which is absrobed by another person, filtered, and so on, connecting us all 11/3/05 3:14 PM C Ristau ok...I understand the aritsitic/informational concept...but I still do not see the morphogenetic connection 11/3/05 3:21 PM Christopher Robbins It seems the morphogenic field gang are saying that we communicate with each other over huge distances in 'fields' we don't realise. Look at this example: 11/3/05 3:21 PM ... There is mounting evidence that as more and more people learn or do something it becomes easier for others to learn or do it. In one experiment, British biologist Rupert Sheldrake took three short, similar Japanese rhymes -- one a meaningless jumble of disconnected Japanese words, the second a newly-composed verse and the third a traditional rhyme known by millions of Japanese. Neither Sheldrake nor the English schoolchildren he got to memorize these verses knew which was which, nor did they know any Japanese. The most easily-learned rhyme turned out to be the one well-known to Japanese. This and other experiments led Sheldrake to postulate that there is a field of habitual patterns that links all people, which influences and is influenced by the habits of all people. This field contains (among other things) the pattern of that Japanese rhyme. The more people have a habit pattern -- whether of knowledge, perception or behavior -- the stronger it is in the field, and the more easily it replicates in a new person. In fact, it seems such fields exist for other entities too -- for birds, plants, even crystals. Sheldrake named these phenomena morphogenetic fields -- fields which influence the pattern or form of things. 11/3/05 3:22 PM ... Don't worry, I don't buy it, I'm just looking at it 11/3/05 3:24 PM ... Anywaym did I tell you Andrew's wife is preggers? 11/3/05 3:27 PM C Ristau hmmmmm...it rally is fascinating though. I must admit, I do very much appreciate reaading 'strange insights' ...I dont know a better word. For example, I have a book about 'channeling' whereby the spirt ofa dead person can be channeled into and through oneself...so one learns all sorts of things. ZThe book actually ahd a lot of excellent insight s into people.....similarly other fields. Alas i amd too tired now and filled with wine to think seriously about SHeldrakes ideas and how they might actually be relvant. One simple possiblity re the rhymes is that the words that remain in a language and/or the well known rhymes may be so, in part because they ARE easily learnable. ..but I shall save this convesation and mull a bit in the am. 11/3/05 3:27 PM ... good night, yer MA 11/3/05 3:27 PM Christopher Robbins good night Mom C Ristau set topic to 'Sheldrakes morphogenetic fields-Nov 03 05' 11/3/05 3:27 PM

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previously: overconcept, one and only again, tony oursler, hippies, video games as art, rhizome is a parasite., MN v RI, from back in the day, random bits of crits, hit me!,
Thursday, November 03, 2005 many people prefer to use my rss feed or my podcast